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Rosliston 06
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Talislanta
 

2nd August 06....................................................13 Players

We were all down stairs in the bar tonight with a committee meeting taking place in the normal room we hang out in. Dave Cooper’s Dungeon and Dragons games are drawing a crowd with both James and Daniel bringing a friend each this week.

From now on I am awarding bonus trophy points equal to the length of a game in minutes to any player who is new to a game. On some occasions this might be awarded to players who have played before but so long ago they have forgotten the rules. This bonus is not available to the person teaching the game even if they have only read the rules and not played face to face before. This should in a small way advantage players who are willing to try something new. I am making no other changes to the system. More complex changes have been muted as has the idea of dropping the trophy points system all together. The whole concept of the system started in the days when there was just a core of regular players. The change to a larger membership with more spasmodic attendance has rendered the system redundant to many. The possible change to a quarterly competition with points awarded for missing weeks based on the average of attended weeks is a possibility for the future but for now I am happy with the little change I mentioned above. Thanks to Dave D for his private correspondence regarding this and thanks to Luke for his enthusiasm for the system as is. 

Matt:

Quote of the evening:

 

Dave: You go down the corridor. It's empty apart from a torch bracket on the wall. 

Daniel: We'll take it. 

Dave: It's a torch bracket...? 

Daniel: Yeah, we'll take it.

 

I think a quest for profitable architectural salvage is a perfectly reasonable plot hook to get a party into a dungeon.

 

Steve H

Thoughts on Wednesday:

 

1. Vinci is to Antike as the Roman Empire is to a small village in ancient Suffolk. Also, if you want a game where kicking around the other players is de riguer, go for Struggle of Empires instead, or Game of Thrones. Or best still War of the Ring, which is one of the best games I have ever played. 

2. I’m not clever enough for Thurn and Taxis, and I can’t stab Dave’s postman or rig his carriage to explode. No fun at all. Also the theme!: “What did you do tonight, darling?” – “I helped solve the vexing logistical difficulties of the postal systems of 19^th Century pre-unification Germany, and came miles last in the process.” 

3. You can brain someone with a torch bracket. A million other household uses surely…  

 

Matt:

1. They are different games. I like Vinci more with 3, and Antike more with 6. Game of Thrones is an exercise in chaos management.

2. I had a similar experience with Katzenjammer Blues: "...then we played a card game where we were domestic cats playing in a jazz band and had to collect mice...why are you looking at me like that?"

3. Why stop with torch brackets? Oak doors go for a fortune...

Antike - 160 minutes

I have put Keith down as the winner even though he finished the game behind in points. We were playing to 12 points.

Matt’s comments:

For the record, I think this sets a bad precedent. Scoring by predicting how games would have finished seems a bit dubious. Now, I havn't played Antike with 3 players before and i'm more than happy to go along with your predictions based on your previous experiences and I don't really want to start an arguement over what was an interesting game for the first 2 hours. However it does strike me that either:

 

You're wrong and scoring by prediction is contentious.

 

or;

 

You're right and the game was a pointless exercise from the start as anyone going for a 4hour world domination strategy was always going to win regardless of the number of vps scored when we had to go home.

 

Either way, I don't think the prospect of playing Antike with less than 5 players is going to thrill me in future, particularly as you both went for the same strategy from the start and Kieth only had an advantage as I was geographically closer to you than him.

 

Steve H

I predict I’m going to finish second every game. Oh, hang on I had two “lasts” on Weds…

 

Gordon concedes:

Given enough time I can’t see how Keith would not have won even if I had been gifted all of Matt’s territory and been allowed to play both our positions as one. Within the next turn or two Keith would have built the final 3 temples giving him an Iron production of over 30 compared to my production of 16. I have averaged the trophy points between us. Matt would have won if we had played to 10 points but then we would all have played differently so it is silly to speculate. Richard thinks we were crazy to play to 12 points.

 

Richard Drewsbury’s comments:

Why?  Not "why did Keith win", but "Why on earth play to 12 points"??

 

Although I've got no time for Mac's "fixes" to the rules in the latest edition, there simply aren't enough VP cards to play a decent 3-player game without it (i) taking too long, and (ii) degenerating into a slug-fest for the last 40 minutes.  I'd rather not play it at all than try to play it to 12 points again.  And that's despite Antike being my favourite game for years.

Keith is experienced at 2 and 3 player Antike and that showed tonight. The last 3 games Keith has been involved with have all been won by him and all ending in the same way with the game abandoned because he has been seen as inevitably taking over the whole board even though he has been behind with points. He plays largely with a disregard for the vp’s treating the game as an empire building project with the mission to control the world. Once a player has the board position to out produce the combined resources of his foes he can take his time logically taking territory. This only works if the vp cards have been evenly distributed among the other players, leading to a long game. With 4 or more players Keith will have to find another way to win.

I really wanted to get Keith into a game with more players just to see how he would play it. I would play again with 3 but I would prefer to play with 5 or 6.

Vinci - 70 minutes

Turn and Taxis - 60 minutes  bgg

Dungeons & Dragons - 140 minutes  Official Web Site

I understand the party was more successful this time. The bonus for playing for the first time has been added to Matthew and Ben’s points. I know points are irrelevant for this game but I have to be consistent

Dave’s comments:

Back in the 80's, this is what everyone thought, hence the move towards more detailed and realistic combat systems. Now it has gone full circle; the D20 system uses a 'one roll to hit' system. It is more detailed than AD&D, but as I said before; I grew up with AD&D and even after all this time, it seems natural and easy to put together an adventure.

 

The kids loved tonight’s session; Daniel and Ben want to play next week. It's ok by me (because I'm enjoying it too); Charlotte and James are having a good time as well (Charlotte is a wicked shot with her bow.)

9th August 06....................................................13 Players

It was a nice surprise to have Toby, Simon and Julian join us after nearly a year absence. Simon’s work is not taking him so far away as it used too and Toby’s time is a bit more his own now the little ones are getting bigger. It all bodes well for us seeing a bit more of Tony and Simon on a Wednesday night. I didn’t get to chat with Julian so I don’t know if this is a one off visit.

I get my new camera tomorrow so we should again get reports with pictures when I return.

I am going on hols for 9 days starting tomorrow and I have a hundred things I need to do between now and then so I’ll be brief.

Power Grid - 135 minutes

Simon was completely new to the game and Steve and Toby had only played once over a year ago so the session started with a rules explanation. I think the greatness of this game is apparent from just hearing the rules. There are some lovely systems at work in this game; the neat way the fuel costs are determined by demand, the honest but uncertain showing of plants that should come up for auction and the on board land grab for cities.

I made a whopping mistake on the second turn when I spent the money I should have used for cities on fuel. I felt I played in a lame way throughout which I am prone to do when I am introducing new players to one of my games. You guys certainly don’t need the kid gloves. Dave won the game by spending two hours making a long chain of correct decisions. Well done Dave.

Poker - 30 minutes

Steve set us a 30 minute time limit so that gave us 90 + 45 + 0 = 135 total trophy points to play for. We took 135 chips each and divided the chips we had at the end by 3 to convert them back to points.

Toby has a similar aura at the Poker table to young Luke. They just come over to me as if they are bluffing every hand yet when I go up against them they always seem to have the cards to take the pot. On the last hand of the evening I hit bottom pair when the flop came out 2, J, J. Steve folded so it was heads up between me and Toby. Toby had fewest chips which did not stop him raising, I thought I smelt something fishy and raised over the top to take him all in. You guessed it, I totally misread Toby who was sitting on a Jack resulting in him doubling up and sneaking the lead from Steve.

Taj Mahal - 90 minutes

New England - 60 minutes

Close scores.

Talislanta (role playing game) - 140 minutes Official Web Site

Daniel claimed to like the combat system better than the D&D system used last week and I am sure Jon appreciated the more interesting abilities this rules set gives low lever magic users.

Dave’s report:

The game is Talislanta; a very unique setting totally unlike any other 'traditional' fantasy world. For example, Daniel was playing a Thrall; a magically created warrior race; all Thralls look identical so they are covered from head to foot in unique tattoos. Jon was a green-skinned Cymrillian warrior-mage; able to use wizardry and a longsword, and Ben was a Blue Aeriad, a humanoid race devolved from birds; having lost the power of flight they use their vestigial wings coupled with Bracers of Levitation to glide for short distances. They started in the city of Cymril, capital of the Seven Kingdoms, on the 42nd of the month of Laeolis (the Blue moon) and were engaged by the wizard Gennaro to collect 6 drams of Crag Spider venom for him ( a Crag Spider is a 12-legged 15' long monstrosity). They actually succeeded in doing so, killing two of the things and also fighting off an attempt by some bandits to steal the venom. They also rescued a Ferran thief named Fixx (Ferrans are small rodent-like humanoids from the Wilderlands of Zaran; not liked by many people). As a defensive tactic they can release a skunk-like offensive stench; something which the PC's found out after Daniel threatened to slice his head off. Now they are back in Cymril, in a weeks time the Magical Fair starts, which should be interesting. Meanwhile, Ben is trying to get a tailor to make a cloak for him out of the Crag Spider hide that they carried back with them (no, I have no idea why he wants this, but it does kind of make him unique and people -will- point him out!)

Talislanta is very heavily influenced by Jack Vance and Lord Dunsany. There are Men here, but not the ones commonly found in the pages of fantasy literature. On Talislanta there are no cows, sheep, horses, oxen or goats; instead there is a range of interesting and unique creatures. Oh yes, and there are no Elves.

16th August 06....................................................13 Players

Dave Dudley’s Report:

A good attendance tonight despite holidays, with Dave continuing Talislanta for the younger members, but upstairs due to the television viewing in the bar. The rest of the group split into 2 4’s as follows:

Torres - 60 minutes

I think this is one of the best games played at the club and always enjoy it. The game tonight was played with a slight variant, where when drawing card, you drew 3 and chose 1. This through me a bit and on at least one occasion I found myself thinking I had a card, but in fact I’d discarded it previously in favour of another.

Industrial Waste - 45 minutes

Julian went for growing his factory and finishing the game quick approach, it was Anna’s first game.

Guillotine - 10 minutes

Caylus - 90 minutes

San Juan - 40 minutes

Talislanta (role playing game) - 140 minutes Official Web Site

Dave C’s report:

The players were Ben C, playing a Blue Aeriad, Matthew (new, Ben's friend) playing a Thrall warrior, Charlotte playing a Sarista gypsy and James playing a Zandir swordsmage. They headed off to the False Forest south of the city of Cymril, having heard a rumour that Smokk had been seen there (a Smokk is a rare creature with an innate ability to find treasure). Heading into the forest they first encountered a tattered beggar begging for alms (some confusion here: - "arms? What's he want our arms for?") They gave him some money and he rewarded them with a scroll and a fist sized polished stone. The scroll had a poem on which his former master Fabian had promised him would lead to a great treasure. Further on they found a willowood tree with a sleeping man and a sleeping catdrac under it, the catdrac had its jaws open. K'kree (Ben) went to investigate and promptly fell asleep. Throttle (Matthew) also went forward, resisted the sleep curse on the tree but then dithered around and succumbed the next round. Jenny (Charlotte) and Mr Quiz (James) pondered a bit, then Mr Quiz cast a Dispel Magic on the tree and broke the curse. They all woke up; the catdrac immediatly leapt on K'kree (he is part-bird after all!) The catdrac was fought off; they then spent some time panning for gold in the river, using K'kree's cloak (yes, this part was beyond me, but they seemed to enjoy it.) Throttle reasoned that the man had fallen asleep and that the catdrac had crept up on him, but fallen asleep before it could bite him (well done Matt, spot on!)

Moving on, they encountered a clump of withergall trees with Morde (skull-headed avian scavengers) roosting in the branches. It was obvious that the Morde did not want them to pass to the South-east; of course they pressed the issue and the Morde attacked. After a brief melee the Morde retreated to the trees; K'kree threw his crescent knife at one and started the fight again. Eventually the Morde were killed, but both Throttle and Mr Quiz had broken their main weapons and K'kree was badly wounded. He paid Jenny 20 silver for a healing spell; they then retraced their steps back to Cymril to re-equip and re-arm.

 

Total game length was 140 minutes. It was Matthew’s first experience of role-playing and Charlotte and James’ first experience of Talislanta. I think they all enjoyed it.

23rd August 06....................................................15 Players

I have now got a new camera but unfortunately I forgot to bring it so we are still without pictures. 

Caylus - 160 minutes

Again Caylus played differently. This time we seemed to have plenty of money in circulation and comparatively few resources. I have seen this game won by a player who built only 2 castle blocks and by a player who near single handedly built the whole castle. I have seen the game won by a player who has not built a single building and by a player who built most of the village. I have seen extensive use of the building track win the game for a player and extensive use of the vp track win a game for a player. I have seen the game won largely through the generation of money and converting that to vp’s via one of the special buildings. I have seen the game nearly won by a player concentrating primarily on acquiring gold. Managing to build a prestige building has always guaranteed a player a good position in previous games I have played, yet in this game Mike managed to finish with a prestige building and come dead last.

Mike is the most experienced player but that experience is largely playing 2 and 3 player games, experience that probably did him more harm than good when playing with 5 players. He used the building track on the favour table and just could not work it often having no spare cubes to buy a building even at the discounted price. Mike built a small prestige building on the last turn.

Dean had most money throughout. He made good use of the vp favour track and seemed to build more of the castle than the rest of us.

Toby was caught out by the game end and was unable to convert his gold and stone into a prestige building.

Simon built the most buildings and ignored the favour track. He converted some blocks to gold on the last turn which helped him win.

Gordon. I was on all the favour tracks but for the top vp row. I managed to finish with a nice Prestige building which gave me 14vps and 2 favours.

Tempus - 140 minutes

This was the first playing of Tempus at the club and I believe it was well received. This will likely be getting a lot more play over the coming weeks. 

Dave D’s comments:

I have to admit to be being pleasantly surprised by Tempus, having been a bit put off by the pre publicity and the fact that there were no green bits was a mark against it from the start. But it was an enjoyable game.

Talislanta (role playing game) - 140 minutes Official Web Site

Dave has put together a Chronicle covering the roleplaying exploits of the younger members. Link to Dave's session report. Daniel has enjoyed both participating in the game and reading the write ups.

30th August 06....................................................17 Players (21 including senior members of the Hilton clan)

This was our biggest turnout ever with the Hilton’s arriving on mass. Steve Hilton, his brother Simon and Simon's 2 children, Katherine and Declan played a couple of lighter games which have not been recorded. Next week we will be without the kids due to the summer holiday ending.

Tempus - 140 minutes

My first impressions of this game were very good indeed. Nice graphics, quality components. The rules are easy to grasp in there entirety the first time the game is explained. (I think we individually make a good job of explaining the games we bring to share with the group but Steve aka The Actor has a professional advantage over us all when it comes to communicating.) This game is a smooth creation by Martin Wallis and it is not hampered by ugly graphics and poor components like most of his other games. But has the design process tightened up the mechanics to the extent that the game has no sole? Do games need a bit of “quirky” to give them character? I don’t know my own opinion yet on this game. I went to bed last night thinking it was the best thing since fish and chips and have woken up with unfocused thoughts. I am looking forward to playing Tempus again soon.

Vinci - 75 minutes

Thurn and Taxis - 65 minutes  bgg

There were more negative mumblings after this game finished. I have played several of the past Spiel des Jahres winners and all are neat family games that have gone on to last the test of time. This games appeal certainly eluded me the one time I played. Out of respect for the reputation of the Spiel des Jahres committee I am willing to try this again. I don’t know what the rest of you think. As it stands I am pained a little that this game is probably taking playtime away from China/Web of Power/Ticket to Ride.

Matt’s comments:

'Negative mumblings' is a bit strong perhaps. It was more of a bemused open discussion as to what people could get emotive about when playing the game. I likened it to eating bread. I thought it was genuinely average, which Dave didn't disagree too hard and Mike said he liked it better when 3 players rather than 4. Julian seemed to be left cold by the whole experience and made the point that it was like Ticket to Ride without the interaction or tension.

 

Now...for me TtR has player interaction just greater than zero and I find it pretty formulaic and dull. This could only be categorised as less interactive and more random (when played with 4- I take Mike's comment onboard and would play again with 3 players).

 

Also: Dave scored 19 points in total (24-5 houses) he scored 17 of those 24 accrued points in the final turn. Now you could argue that he planned this well (which he most certainly did) or you could note that, like TtR some methods of scoring points are just so much better than others that it leads the game into formulaic play and obviously superior strategies. Mike, particularly, had played the game before (admitted with fewer players) and didn't seem to make any serious errors yet scored badly. The carriage mechanic may be the problem: there is no incentive to make a route greater than 3 in the opening stages of the game. Okay, you have to plan where to put it, but you don't get much control over that. I felt railroaded into plays throughout the game.

 

I also suspect, like TtR, if you plan to end the game as early as you can- you are likely to have won. This isn't an archetypal Matt 'ranter' of a game by the way, despite the above screed my 'bottom 3' games remain unchanged- it wasn't so bad I suppose I just think there's better stuff out there.

 

China: It just seems better. And I should play Web of Power.

 

Dave’s retort:

A slight correction, I scored 10 of the points on the final turn 6 for placing a house in all provinces, 1 for triggering the end of the game and an extra 3 for taking the #7 carriage (having already got the 6). That said, having played the game a few times, I’m beginning to wonder as there does seem to be little variation in strategy. There are certainly better games out there (as Matt says, although I might disagree with regards to which they are) including Web of Power/China (I don’t think TtR is one of them) and there are worse ones as well.

 

To me it seems to play much the same with 3 or 4 and it’s not a game I would refuse to play with either number, except if there was something more appealing on offer. As to the Spiel des jahres this seems one of the better winners of recent years.

 

Gordon

It won the SDJ and it is design by the guy who gave us Puerto Rico. This game must be more than a slice or two of bread. I would like to give it another go soon.

Just out of interest what are your bottom 3 games Matt?

 

Matt:

It may well have won the SDJ, but then so have Rummikub and Scotland Yard and even the great Dr Knizia has his off games. Interesting though- why do you think there must be something more to it? I'm not sure that games are like authors, to my mind they are only as good as their last game.

 

My bottom 3? Well lets give my favourites first, because I don't want to come off totally negative, even though Luke would appreciate a vitriol-laden itemised destruction of their flaws:

 

The best games i've played at HBG since March 2005 (no order):

 

Caylus, Railroad Tycoon, Puerto Rico, Raj, Kremlin, that crazy political card game Steve G brought along that one time, Antike, Ra, China and Power Grid

 

None of which I’d played before I came. The thing is, because the highs are so high, the lows are dreadful:

 

3. McMulti - All the worst aspects of Settlers with the player interaction and variation in strategy removed.

2. St Petersburg - Just the worst designed, most poorly balanced and minimally play tested luck afflicted draw-fest I’ve ever encountered. A catastrophe of a game.

1. Fury of Dracula - I think this is well covered ground. I won’t ever get those 3 hours of my life back.

 

Essentially the more interaction and opportunities to mess with other players and the more variation in viable strategies, the more I like the game. I think the games that get played most at the club can be quite low in interaction between players, although you can usually count on Steve H to bring some fight to a table.

 

Julian:

Lets be honest, any game in which...

1)    The starting player is at an advantage for picking his 2 cards from a fresh draw rather than the 'what's left' stuff

2)    There is a significant advantage if you can be bothered to card count

3)    You can play without once considering your opponents' current positions apart from 'will they beat me to completing a section for a 1 point difference'.

...should never be given any prizes for best game of anything.

 

Hell they might as well put dice in the box and forget the whole history of Euro game development from the last ten years.

It didn't help that I lost, but even if I had won the game, then I would have considered it a very weak example of boardgame design.

Talislanta (role playing game) - 140 minutes Official Web Site

Dave deserves a round of applause from us all for entertaining the kids this summer. If the holidays had gone on many more weeks he would have filled the downstairs bar with kids still clambering to get a look in via the windows, doors and air vents

Dave’s journal chronicling the summers role-playing antics has been posted here.

Dave D wins the trophy at the conclusion of the clubs most attended month.

Average attendance this month 14.2

Trophy point table

Games played Year to Date
 

*New game bonus equal to the minutes the game took. The rule explainer is excluded from getting the bonus.

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